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/cyb/ - cyberpunk and cybersecurity

low life. high tech. anonymity. privacy. security.
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Help me fix this shit. https://archive.arisuchan.jp/q/res/2703.html#2703

Kalyx ######


File: 1502193514645.gif (65.21 KB, 418x669, 1441984526657-3.gif)

 No.1241

I'm too lazy to be properly /cyb/. I love the culture, I love the ideas. It's important to me to be more silent, more secure, and more hacky. But it's a whole lot of work to learn a programming language or a new OS. It takes precious time, energy, and focus to make something new. I'm standing at the bottom of a mountain looking up, and it looks high and the fall looks painful.


What do?

 No.1243

File: 1502197598911.jpg (154.21 KB, 1520x1080, mpv-shot0001.jpg)

If the mountain looks high you don't need to rush it. Being consistent is more important than being fast. It's a long road and it won't be easy but the landscape will be good on the top.

 No.1247

Find the foothold that looks most interesting, and start climbing there. I've been programming for about a decade but I'm still constantly improving and learning new things, and each step I make, I make because I saw something new and interesting and shiny to play with. Or climb. Whatever. Metaphors. Even if you fall, it won't be painful if you enjoyed everything up to then.

Also, despite lots of people saying to start programming with languages like Python and Javascript, if you're beginning programming I suggest starting with C. It's going to be harder at first, but it's way easier to go from C to any other language than the other way around.

 No.1249

>>1247
>start with C
I think the biggest problem with C as a starter language is that it isn't really good for productivity and you shouldn't write C if you can get away with it which means for 99% of the things a beginner wants to make you can use a different language.
For a beginner intro in writing and designing good programs i would go with HtDP2 ( http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/ )

 No.1253

A mountain's high has no meaning if you can barely remember that you are climbing.

As >>1243 said, be steady. Don't look at it as "work", but more like a lifestyle and you'll get there.

 No.1254

A lot of the time, changing your lifestyle comes as a result of changing your peer group. In this case, it's difficult to really find a properly /cyb/ peer group I realize, and a lot of people in this community are no doubt more introverted types.

Honestly Lain, echoing what other people have said here, take it gradually. Cultivate hobbies and interests that fit the lifestyle you want to lead and worry about the rest as it comes along.

 No.1255

Install a basic Linux distro (like Linux Mint) and you'll learn it just by using it every day.

 No.1256

>>1249
The point of learning C isn't to make a bunch of soykafty beginner projects fast, it's to be able to later learn pretty much any language in a matter of hours to days rather than weeks.

It also helps you understand how and why code works at a fundamental level.

I began with pascal, then I struggled to learn C, and from then on I have never struggled to learn any language. I might have had some trouble with functional programming, but that was more because of the semantics than because of the syntax.

"Beginner languages", or languages that have been made specifically to be easy for beginners to pick up and program, are great for having someone make a calculator app, but horrible for actually teaching someone how to program.

 No.1261

>>1256
What does one need to do to learn C and be able to use it on linux? Like what books to read and how to install a program for it if its not already on some distro?

 No.1267

programmers are not cyb.

 No.1269

>>1261
gcc and any text editor should be all you need to start off with…

 No.1274

>>1267
Not all /cyb/ is /prog/, but all /prog/ is /cyb/.

 No.1275

learn C if you intended to do reversing or assembly or kernel related things. but other than that learn something simple like perl. why perl the syntax is simple and very forgiving. it will allow you learn programming logic and once you learned that then you can pick up just about any other language.

 No.1276

>>1274
I have to disagree, or clarify or qualify or. Something.

There are a whole lot of programmers who are very )verrrrry) not cyb.

The problem really is that the defenitions on that term are quite broad. I mean, in a cyber punk world, we have often programmers working for corps, and probably many of these programmers, most of these programmers, are perhaps cyber, but they are totally not punk.

when we talk about individual habits and practices being /cyb/ it seems usually they need to encompass both those sides, that is, programming in a subversive, punk-y fashion. Programming is only half.

 No.1277

>>1256
there are no real beginner languages, C might be a good choice if you go lower levels but a terrible choice to make programs with.
You should avoid C if you can.
Writing C doesn't make you a good programmer instantly, it just gives a nice overview and some respect how far we've come but it doesn't teach you good programming, in fact most people write terrible C code to date.
That you struggle with things doesn't mean everyone will or does.
C is great for learning but you still should avoid it if you can.
Here a great pdf for learning to write better C code.
http://icube-icps.unistra.fr/img_auth.php/d/db/ModernC.pdf

 No.1278

>>1276
Let me rephrase my point.

Not everything /cyb/ is relevant to /prog/ but all things /prog/ are relevant to /cyb/.
If you're /cyb/ and have no interest in /prog/, you're doing it very wrong.

 No.1279

>>1278
100% disagree

 No.1280

>>1278
Yeah no, those two statements contradict eachother.

 No.1294

>>1241
Start with something small that you can use in your daily life, like setting up your own calendar server.
You follow a step-by-step tutorial and by the end of it you have a useful new tool. Keep doing this and eventually you'll become familiar with administrating a system. Eventually you'll look at how those things are made and you get into programming.
At least that's how it was for me :3

 No.1300

>>1256
Can confirm. I dabbled with python and c# at first. Made literally 0 progress. Then I pushed my way through a few classes in C++ in school. There's a few fiddly bits to python I could figure out if I really took the time, but having even a surface level knowledge of both C(++) and Assembly is worth it's weight in gold.

 No.1302

>>1280
>>1279
>>1278
Being unable to break down and bend the cyber to your will is like being a soykaf-zombie in the age of digital.

Wasted potential.

 No.1304

>>1302
>humans around for 200,000 years
>defy all odds and be born in digital era
>only ever use a computer for checking facebook and instagram

 No.1305

>>1304
But muh socialization, I must screw as many Tinder whores as I can manage to make my life have some meaning right?

 No.1306

>>1305
>>1304
Humans are averse to pain. It's painful to think, painful to be lonely, painful to not have an unending IV of dopamine.

People do not change, only individuals.

 No.1311

>>1278
what

 No.1854

File: 1509934717136.gif (229.23 KB, 500x579, 1507764016574.gif)

>>1269
Hell, you can get away with just cc and vim, that's how I started out. I would also recommend this book:

http://aelinik.free.fr/c/

That being a second to Kernigan and Ritchie, of course.

 No.1855

>>1278
You completely miss the point of this board.

 No.1856

>>1300
I think Python will allow you to learn how to structure code better cause you don't have to focus so much on the details.

You can also learn to write functional, object oriented, or imperative code.

 No.1857

File: 1510003588049.jpg (107.08 KB, 600x800, LarryWall.jpg)

>>1856
I think perl will allow you to learn how to write code faster because you don't have to focus so much on formatting. You can also learn to write functional, object oriented, imperative, or one liners that look like line noise.

 No.1858

File: 1510006496591.jpg (51.27 KB, 306x610, 00B055F700000190-0-image-m….jpg)

>>1857
I never used pearl.

 No.1860

File: 1510037509729.jpg (48.07 KB, 633x325, 1E91750A-C056-11E5-8654-CE….jpg)

>>1857
And Larry Wall is one of them old school hackers that I could hear ramble on all day. Has a real inspiring personae and is funny as hell.

 No.1900

>>1261
>how to install a program for it if its not already on some distro?
There are different ways of doing that, so it's gotta be learned in a kinda case by case way, but in any case it's much simpler and easier than learning to program. Speaking from personal experience here, I can install virtually anything on my Arch box, but can't program soykaf or even make bash scripts yet. You just have to find out what is the specific technique for that type of installation, then research the steps for that and what they mean. Can be done without any knowledge of programming.

 No.1904

>>1857
I argue Lua is the way to go regarding beginner programming. Simplistic, clean, less formatting, like perl, but faster then python in many ways.

 No.1924

I can understand how you feel but you should start out slowly. There's no need to rush to the mountain.

Improve your security in your day to day life, learn programming step by step. I'm no expert in programming but I'm making my way slow and steady.

If you're really interested maybe you can take some classes at university/college?
I'm currently enrolled in cybersecurity and it's a lot of fun, we have amazing professors and learn a lot of new stuff every week.



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