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Kalyx ######

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Hi, i've a pretty stupid question.
Do you think that "underground" science exists ?
And if yes, what it looks like ?


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One thing that comes to mind would be research chemicals: Usually it's people modifying known drugs (e.g. psychedelics), have then synthesized in some Chinese lab that doesn't ask too many questions and finding people who try them, starting with trace amounts, to see if there is an actual effect. If it works they can sell it.

Our Hackerspace also has a Biology Room where people do strange things all the time, like some guys grow insects as a protein source, but I don't know or understand much about this.


If you look at the listings of all known onion addresses and search for strings related to gitlab you will find a treasure trove of locked down gitlab instances running on onions. God only knows what the teams developing things behind them are doing.


Ah yes, chemistry and biology fit "underground science" pretty nicely.
Do you think there is some examples of usage of physics and math as "underground" sciences ?


Well maybe amateur astronomy and cryptography respectively. I can't imagine something like a criminal underground in Physics but from what I've heard you'll find a good amount of DIY enthusiasts and hacker spirit there. Cryptography should speak for itself.

Thinking about crime, I remember the Drug Cartels have kidnapped radio communications people in Brazil and made them build a unique radio network for the cartels. I guess some physics skills were used here, but I'm pretty sure no one here or any sane person wants to get involved with these people.


also, a lot of amatuer astronomy isnt really underground. Sure its unprofessional, but its fairly open. Most people aren't remotely hiding what they're doing.


yeah, I was just trying to find /some/ examples for physics that could be somehow relevant :-). Maybe someone else knows about some weird hidden underground physics scheme.


There are some hackerspaces that have biology rooms, I have met a dude that had ~10.000$ in laser equipment in his shed and did expreiments with that, there are the weird inventions and tests from the maker community… It defenitely exists.

It may look like this: (and the accompanying YouTube channel).


Yes. Without a doubt. Proof by my existence and my work.


Dirty Pictures is a documentary about this sort of thing.


Thx for the link, the movie seems to be interesting !


What do you work on, alice?



Advanced prosethics. Don't have many friends because a lot of people think I would try to amputate them without consent.


If it exists in large scale, it's most likely sponsored by the government with no paper trail leading back to them.


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Interesting to say the least.


They're work is interesting, sure, and I can't say I don't support them. But to say its science is unfair. Its at best engineering, trying to make cheap, foolproof ways to do things, but they're not trying to learn new things, just to apply learnt things.


Nope. Science as research and experiment require highly trained people and generally expensove equipment. The people with the ability generally have no reason to conduct work in isolation - publishing is good for there carreer, and probably couldn't affors to anyway.

Making drugs or networks isnt research or science.

Historically, though, some mathematicians did like to hide their results - Newton, Pythagoreans, and the soln to the cubic. Alchemists, precursors to modern chemists, but not scientists, supposedly did lots of work in secret.



I do think it exist, but it would be from passionate people that would have extremely questionable work ethics. Because you need to do stuff beyond the boundaries to actually make progress, and the people that do, always do it in a questionable manner.

So this >>2351 is the best it can get without compromising your work ethics.


there are definitely underground chemists who invent new drugs, and even more who manufacture old ones.


I don't know if I'd call it science but there's underground knowledge for sure. every school of thought (linguistics, religion, physics, music, visual art, philosophy, sociology, etc etc etc) comes from truth and distorts to some degree of falsehood when converting into language and things we can understand. most people only stick to one or at least few because when you get too deep into one circle you're discouraged from exploring others, because of what some people could call the tower of babel. basically just look where you'd least expect to find anything of importance and you'll be surprised to find how much you have to learn from the fools on the other side of the river.

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